i've moved around quite a bit in my life. i've lived, throughout my life, in 5 states, traveled to almost all 50, and 7 countries. i've been to a fair amount of places, but i have to say that san diego rates pretty low on my list of favorite places. don't misunderstand- it's ok for some people. but i'm different than most people, and just because other people like it doesn't mean that i will. also, it has its benefits. and i am glad i had the chance to live here- i met the most amazing girl in the world here. buuuuut, i feel about as eager to leave san diego as i was to leave kentucky. here's why:
10. its environment. the amount of smog in the air has been coming to my attention a lot more lately. also, there is such a dearth of cutting-edge environmental spectacles. for instance, i never see waterless urinals in this semi-arid climate, i don't see many cfl lights in this blackout-prone city, and it's more common to see a 4x4 monster truck than a civic.
9. its military complex. goes hand-in-hand with the 4x4 monster trucks. yes, people here support the american terrorism in iraq because many of the soldiers in iraq were deployed from san diego. in some areas of this city, the type-a alpha males rule, and if you are not like them, you are "feminine". here, strength precedes intelligence. reminds me a lot of the south.
8. its lack of good coffee/tea shops. to repeat a friend from the bay area, "this is starbucks territory". i must pay respects to three coffee shops san diego really needs. these are pannikin (any location), rebecca's coffee house, and influx cafe. other than these (and a couple other places), there's really not much to brag about. good luck finding a tea shop here: the best place to get loose-leaf tea is a place in old town- the service is terrible, it closes early, and there's no seating.
7. its complacency. people here are comfortable with where they are in life (no matter where that may be), and feel no need to grow or challenge or be different. i'm sick of being stared at because i don't follow the norm. and if i challenge what is the mainstream opinion, i get ostracized.
6. its superficiality. one word to describe san diego? superficial. if you're ever in san diego, don't try to talk to anyone about something that actually matters. if you do, you're a very strange person. if you're a female visiting san diego and want to blend in with the locals, come prepared with too much make-up and too much time to spend looking at yourself in the mirror. the superficiality even seeps into public spaces: sdsu's campus green areas are not meant to be walked on or sat on; they're meant to be looked at. there's not much to do in balboa park beside walk in the developed areas.
5. its culture/history. san diego has it. but it's solely oriented around surfing. this area is not known for its art, its sophistication, or its finesse. there's history here, too, but the problem is that cabrillo and his successors wiped it out to establish their own history. people here tend to forget about that. on a side note, although i am very tolerant, respectful, and supportive of the northern mexico culture, i personally don't like it very much; but this culture is very prominently displayed and ingrained here.
4. its citizens' attitudes. i can't figure out why people here are so far removed from their relationships. your friends don't reveal their soul to you. in fact, unless you know someone well, they will hardly make eye contact with you. moreover, your friends don't introduce you to more friends- that's up to you.
3. its exclusivity. everything's 21-and-up, which isn't a hindrance for me anymore, but these rules make it hard to have younger friends. before i turned 21, i couldn't find anything to do here, believe it or not. it's also exclusive in terms of prejudice: they expect certain things from certain people, making stereotypes normative.
2. its political atmosphere. i've gotten the impression here that you shouldn't challenge the government, that things going on in city hall are not my business, and that republicans are god's children. i want to hide from people that i vote neither democrat nor republican, and don't politically support anyone i disagree with. i carry many socialist ideals, but that doesn't mean i'm a socialist either, a concept incomprehensible to most people here.
1. its inaccessibility. everything worth going to is disconnected from the rest of the city: south park has 1 bus running through it, ocean beach is almost literally disconnected from the city, and north park has jems, but they are also spread out. i want to live in a city connected by public transportation and that allows walking. try living in san diego without a car. yeah. it would suck.
this list spilled onto the screen way too fast. yeah, i hate it here. maybe seattle or san francisco next?
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Dude, I couldn't agree more with almost all your reasons. A lot of urban centers are producers of smog, and San Diego is no exception. Plus, given its notorious staunch Republican base, going green is like going Democrat, and God forbid someone do the ultimate sin of switching parties *GASP*.
I also agree with your views on San Diego's problems with inaccessibility (San Francisco was so much easier and I had no need to get a car), military complex, political atmosphere, and its superficiality.
As for culture and history, there is a show on NBC called About San Diego that has all these neat stories about tidbits that are well known and tidbits about the tiniest details of the county. Whether these things relate to Cabrillo is anyone's guess.
I feel the exact same way. I have been here for 2 years and only have 2 more to go. My husband and I don't have even ONE friend who is from here. In fact, all of our friends are from the NY (home state) and the rust belt.
No one has any sort of "Moxie" here or any integrity for their personal character; they roll over with everything. I get called a "bitch" at least once a week for sticking up for myself, complaining about ridiculously bad service or telling someone to be quiet in a movie theater (hubby and I have stopped going out to movies because people can't keep their mouths shut out here).
I can't even begin to tell you the amount of times someone has severely screwed up my life because they lied to me (no one likes to tell it how it is and tend to sugarcoat everything), were lazy and didn't do the work they were supposed to do, or went back on their word.
I always wondered who seriously gave a damn about all this pop culture garbage and who listened to such terrible, listless music, now I know; everything I hate about pop culture is worshiped here and comes from here. People will sell themselves out in a minute when styles change. It's sad.
Good luck to you, I hate it here too. I don't think the fact that I dislike hot weather, lack of seasons and relentless sunshine helps either.
Maybe we should form a support group? ;)
^STARTS SLOW CLAP
Bravo! My girlfriend and I moved to “Sun Diego” June 2007 from Pennsylvania just to try something different. Needless to say we are moving back in 2 weeks. The whole San Diego experience has been horrible. Everything you said and the above comments have said is completely correct.
We’ve been here over a year and have made 0 real friends. People here just want to surf, tan, and hang out at the beach. Our apartment complex is totally inept and cannot handle the smallest issue within the complex. There are homeless people EVERYWHERE; we actually saw two bums having “relations” downtown IN THE GASLAMP. They wake us up in the middle of the night crushing cans and diving into the dumpster. And everyone seems to think this is normal. The museums in Balboa Park seem like they were just thrown together for tourist; the zoo is not very good besides having some panda bears. Also being a hockey fan in SD doesn’t help. People here ask me if I like rugby when I wear my ice hockey jerseys. (NOTE: the logo has an ice hockey sticks and skates)
When I told everyone at work that I was moving home they did two things. 1. Per usual, asked me if I was going to miss the weather (not a big deal to be honest, I miss seasons) and 2. I got the normal “why would you want to move away?”… When I asked them if they lived anywhere else they look at me blankly and say “why would I want to do that?”
But now that we are not the only ones who hate San Diego, I wish everyone the best of luck getting out of the dirty infested hell hole.
-Bill
Dude Yeah SD sucks. But so does SF- I am from the bay area and I just want to remind you the grass is NOT always greener- San Francisco has some scenic beauty, but it is also disgusting and has WAY too many cracked out aggressive homeless types. It's not clean anymore and there are tons of people from other states who think they own the town. I now live in Chicago and NY and they are both heads and tails above SF. Just my 2 cents. Peace.
so, i just saw that this august i received three comments on this blog post.
thank you all for your insight. i'm glad that i'm not the only one who observed these things about "america's finest city".
i have to say that one year after posting this i feel exactly the same. part of me has simply acclimated to the city, expecting all the things i hated so bad at the time of this posting, but all of me will always long for something different. and i still hate those stupid little stares i get when i say something mildly intelligent. in other words, i still hate san diego.
i'm glad the three of you could leave town and find nicer places. i've applied for my ph.d. at a place that i think will suit me much better, and we'll see how that goes. in the meantime i must suffer, but look forward to the change. cheers!
OMG - I have found normal people in San Diego!!!
I moved to San Diego 10 years ago. Boy that was the BIGGEST mistake of my life. I consider myself pretty stupid to have moved from nice warm friendly, inexpensive, well run, no state income tax Florida to an overpriced, over rated, man made beachs and hairy palm tree San Diego...stupid, stupid, stupid me.
1. San Diego is not tropical, it is a desert. Palm trees are not native to SD they grow in a tropical region. Tropical also means there is high humidity, lots of rain, foliage is green and healthy (not dead and brown waiting for a breeze to blow by and catch it on fire) and the average temperature is above 80 degrees.
2. Talk about unfriendly people. If you so much as say hi to a local they wonder what you want. I have never had so many doors let go in my face by the locals with no manners. I've never had people walk into me before just because they had no clue as to their surrounding.
3. For a city that has soooo many colleges, it has the most ignorant local population. You are right when you said that people here never bother to better themselves, they are happy doing what they did 40 years ago, like driving their 1962 VW van with a Peace sign spray painted on the side and those fashionable tie dye shirts.
4. Apartments - has anybody really noticed that most apartments here (in the city of SD only) were built between 1920 & 1950, then none were built again until 2000. I personally have never lived in an apartment built in 1940 until I moved out here. In Florida they tear the old stuff down that contains lead and Asbestos. Every apartment I lived in was brand new, with central heat & air, a full size washer and dryer, a dishwasher, microwave, security system and beautiful landscaping, mutiple pools, so even had a 9 hole golf course ALL for $425 per month. So I've comprised by living standards down to a roof, four walls, and inside toilet for $1121 per month. It's a crap hole, by neighbor across the hall beats his wife on Friday nights so the Cops are always here. My neighbors downstairs are locals who were raised in a barn, they cannot close a door without slamming it, and or course they are deaf because they can't hear their TV without sharing with everyone around them. And of course far be it from me to say a word to the office for fear of retaliation from the "bullies".
BUT unfortunality I have a business here. I've worked very hard at setting up a bookkeeping service. And I have experienced some of the worst clients ever. It's hard to find clients here who give a hoot about their books. As long as they have money in the bank then their profitable.
And Narcissitic, I've never met so many people who have such a high opinion of themselves, who are so self centered and they feel like somebody owes them something. I haven't figured out what that something is, but when I find out I'll be sure to broadcast it. I've had clients empty out their bank accounts the day before I'm suppose to get a check. Oh and lying, no one seems to be able to deal with the truth out here.
San Diego has no class, it's not a vacation meca, it's not a high-tech bio-medical area(they are all moving to Florida 'cause San Diego's too expensive) it's beaches are disgusting and polluted, the cliffs from above and fall and kill you. And for a place that is so strick on it's environment why is there a sewage spill once a week so the beaches have to be closed. I heard one surfer being interviewed because he was surfing in an area that had been closed due to a raw sewage spill and his comment was "he just spits the turds out" now ladies how would you like someone like that showing up to take you out one night.
So I'm stuck here. If I can ever get enough money saved up to move back to Florida I will be one happy person.
I can put a sign on the back of my car that say's
"AMF San Diego"
I have lived in San diego all of my life just about everywhere in the county some things I can agree with you on but San Diego has its good points too but I'm on to San Fransisco next year and we'll just see how I like northern California
i cant believe im still alive living here. worst place in the country. cant wait to move up north again.
San Diego has the rudest, most ignorant people I have ever met, the city government is corrupt. I have been here for two years and it has been the worse time in my life.
I was brain dead when I moved here.
I want get out of here as soon as I can, before I commit suicide
I was born and raised here, but I have to admit that I hate San Diego. Though, hate is such a strong word and I may just say that I really dislike living here. I just moved back from living in San Francisco and boy do I miss it. I can't wait to move back. Yes, it's sunny here all year long, but that's it. I hate that you have to drive everywhere, there's no nightlife, and the arts and culture is very minimal. I am so bored here! I also hate the lack of coffee shops....why can't starbucks just go away.
Yeah man, I feel ya. I grew up here, left in 2001, came back and left again, then came back 2 1/2 years ago and to be short about it…
San Diego will never change, and it will never change because no one here wants to change. I have several close friends here (in part because I grew up here with them) but every one of them has given up on themselves to surf, smoke weed, play frisbee golf, whatever. I long for culture and something to do at night that doesn’t involve bad techno and guys with shaved heads wearing polo shirts, or hipster/artist elitist kids with their PBR’s at $7 a pop. And as far as people being unfriendly I totally agree. On a whole I think people here are jaded because they stopped challenging themselves a long time back and stopped growing, yet never made that connection. Anyone who’s ever struggled with depression knows that the best way out is to stay productive and positive, not self-absorbed and lazy—so San Diego get off your ass already! And good luck calling someone on their shit out here--that turns into a fist-fight...
Glad you found a nice girl here—I visited Seattle for 2 days and found more interesting, down to earth women (and one special girl in particular) in that that time than I have EVER found in the last 2 years in San Diego—screw this Hollywood infection. I’ve never met soo many stuck-up superficial women with truly nothing to offer me. Even the musicians up there were genuinely interested in listening to a fan after the show, plus proud of their scene. Try talking to any band out here and see how fast they bail on you. The music scene here is almost the worst I’ve seen--which is the hardest part for me because I teach music for a living and long for the challenge of other professional musicians who don’t think they’re better than everyone else because they know a few bad blues licks they got off YouTube. In my efforts to find myself a teacher I’ve found no one with the exception of the occasional SDSU jazz snob that knows much of anything about his instrument; it’s sad, really. There are good players here but no scene to support them. I struggle to find students as well because everyone here is too lazy to learn the guitar, or too superficial to be creative in the first place. Several of my students who moved here from the east coast have told me that the living would be much better out there because the people are more interesting and therefore do more interesting things—like play instruments, and I’m hoping to find out shortly. It goes to show: no culture, no art.
It all seems like a bad dream, one big experiment in mediocrity, but it’s a big world and I’m sure there’s a place for all of us to fit in somewhere. Personally I’d like to grow, so bye San Diego!
I hated San Diego I lived there for 10 years moving from Northern Cali.
I didn't make one good friend the whole time I lived there. It's the worst place I've ever lived. I will never go back! ick....
i agree with all ur reasons...sa diego is the worst place on earth. I hate the people. i also hate the place and the schools. san diego sucks man....
See ya...
10 reasons I hate San Diego, huh?...
Whatever dude... San Diego is a great place to live. That said, I noticed that most people who have an issue with it are those who live in the Gay Area... I mean Bay... whatever.
I actually have lived in the bay for the past 20 years since being dragged here as a kid from Colorado, and this place sucks big time.
I lived in San Diego for a bit, and horribly regret that I ever moved... because I am dying to run back! The weather, unlike Frisco, is great... as are the women (also unlike Frisco). Plenty of parking; not everyone is packed in like sardines; the beaches are beautiful; and not everyone is so fucking in your face about shit--all unlike Frisco.
I don't know, to each his own... but I love that place, and I regret so much that I ever left.
I hate San Diego, especially the monolithic gender roles. Everybody my age here thinks the same, especially the girls!
All the girls here loved to be slapped around by men, and everybody finds a woman slapping somebody the most offensive thing in the world.
Everybody my age also has a preference for men taking the nurturing roles and being massage therapists. I always see men holding hands with kids, never women. All the younger massage therapists are men. Everybody is extremely intolerant and hateful regarding different views about sex and gender roles and exceptions do not exist.
Everybody here hates anime also!
Thank you for posting this blog. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one that hates San Diego this much! The people here are just so ignorant and vain... AND THEY'RE PROUD OF IT! I mean, there are ignorant people everywhere. But everywhere else there seems to be intelligent people peppered in here and there. In San Diego, it's like a 24/7 pot fest, and all I have is a fork. Don't get me wrong, I've made friends here, but whenever I try to talk about the outside world, books, art, or science, they always cut me off. They seem to think I'm trying to "act" smart, when I'm just trying to make conversation. Being here makes me think, "maybe this is why Einstein endorsed that bomb..." joking of course. But when you want to talk about the outside world, they look at you like you're the freak for even acknowledging that there is a world out side of San Diego! It's absurd! I've been to many, many countries and places all over the world, and I can honestly say I would rather live in a dirt poor 3'rd world country like Nepal or Morocco, than spend another day here... San Diego sucks!
I'm jealous of you, you get to leave <.<...
Gl and have fun!
I'm 45 and I've lived in San Diego most of my life. I agree with most of what you say. I plan to leave within the next few years myself if I can.
I've been living here in San Diego for 6 months or so now. The first thing I noticed was the rudeness of the majority of the people I have come in contact with. And what's up with the fake tan,ugg wearing, barbie doll clones with too much makeup on? Is that really a look here? (Gag) With the conceited attitude, those are some really attractive girls!(not)
I have met a few nice people here, but they are usually too few and far between. It seems most of the people living here are trying to be like everyone else around them, just go with the flow, no matter how wrong it is. And if you try to have a conversation about something that actually matters in life, they seem confused, just keep it shallow and you're ok I guess.
I lived here in La Jolla years ago, and met quite a few very nice people. Even met an awesome girl here!, not sure what happened, but it doesn't seem nearly as friendly as it did then.
Most of the guys here seem like real lying "dogs", no respect for women in general, or integrity, as well as disrespect towards everyone else. Enough said.
I continue to try to find "normal" people here to hang out with, but not much luck so far. I moved here from Los Angeles hoping it would be better, but now I miss LA. Being near the beach is great, just not when it is overrun by jerks. It's hard to enjoy a beautiful house when it is infested with cockroaches...
Finally, I do not feel like I left San Diego for all the wrong reasons. I actually felt like a failure because I just could not make it work. I felt like when I was even a little agressive in trying to make friends, I was intruding on their complacent lives. I have a friend that moved there 20 years ago from Los Angeles and he has completely changed into selfish and rude MF who doesn't own a mirror.
wow. love this topic because i hate san diego too. i've lived here for almost 15 years, and i can't really take another day. i'm originally from los angeles (yes, it's southern california, but it's much different!). i came down here after having lived in the midwest and northern california for brief spells (5 years each). i didin't ant to raise my young son in l.a. because it wasn't safe at the time and i didn't want him to be ruined by the hollywood/celebrity-obsessed culture, so i came down here. he's now off to college (couldn't wait to leave san diego as he feels the same way you do), and now i'm ready to go. as a black female, most of my friends in san diego were new york transplants who left because of the redevelopment/gentrification craze a few years back. they became priced out of this "finest city". i haven't clicked with any of the black community here because, as you mentioned, people seem stuck in mediocrity here--it's very unfortunate. it has also started to become los angeles circa 1985. the irony is that l.a. has cleaned up its act and is now a thriving, progressive metropolis once again.
san diego and san diegans suck for the most part, and i'm actively looking for work up in l.a. county so i can be closer to my family and away from the drunken republican, stunted, militaristic, xenophobia that is san diego county. thanks for sharing your thoughts with the rest of us out here who can't wait to escape! good luck to everyone who is in the process of leaving this dying city!
Me: "17 + 7 equals 24. We will have 14 left if we take away 10."
Male Colleague: "I thought 17 + 7 equals 16, and that we were going to take away 6? So, we'll have 10 left."
L.A. Me: "NO!!! 17 + 7 equals 24 because 7 + 7 equals 14, plus 10 (17 = 10 + 7) equals 24. 24 minus 14 leaves 10. You with me?"
S.D. Me: "Exactly, you're absolutely right. My mistake."
You are a douchebag and a idiot that has not traveled much past whatever trailer trash area you came from. But hey I guess every moron with access to the net can post idiocy. So have fun deleting my post like you deleted every other post that disagreed with you. Typical small minded liberal moron. Have fun not finding decent employment @sshole.
While I sincerely appreciate every comment left here, I don't usually reply directly to them. But I just want to clear up a few things that are factually incorrect in this latest comment.
First, I'm not sure what gives the commenter the idea that I delete comments that disagree with me. I've never deleted a single comment, as you can see by simply reviewing the comments here. The only one that says "...has been removed by a blog administrator" was actually spam. Any other removed comments were removed by the posting parties. In fact, a simple review of the comments will show some that disagree with my assessment. So, that charge is simply not correct.
Second, I get the feeling that you didn't even read the post, since you didn't address any content in your comment. "Typical small minded liberal moron" doesn't describe me or anything in this post. In self-defense, I am certainly not an "idiot", either. I'm completely befuddled as to where "Have fun not finding decent employment @sshole" came from.
Now that I'm writing this, I suspect your post was spam. Eh. Oh well, not really worth more time than that.
I can't agree more about your reasoning. Me and my girlfriend moved here 3 months ago from Buffalo NY. I can't get over how much there is a lack of a sense of community and disregard for your fellow man! My girlfriend decided to take her scooter to work from the sprinter. We figured it might save on gas. After her shift she scooted across the street to the sprinter with the little man on the sign was blinking so that she had the right of way to walk. As she's crossing, a car decides its a good idea to inch up to her so they can make a turn. Another car behind the driver drove up pretty fast behind them so that the first car had to gun it so they didn't get hit from behind. My girlfriend jumped off her scooter before she got hit as they ran over her scooter. She laid sprawled on the pavement just before the side walk, legs scraped and bleeding. Did anyone stop to help...no they did not. I'm appauled at the selfinshness of this area. I've never seen such rudeness and lack of manors in my life. Not only that, try to have somewhat of an intelligent conversation with someone. They look at you like you're talking quantum physics. They charge you for everything. You can't even go to a state park without having to pay some kind of fee, same goes for festivals, beaches, etc. San Diego is a clear indication of coorporate greed. Has anyone been to Albertsons! This place certainly needs an etiquette lesson!
After 6 1/2 years in San Diego, we're going back to Chicago. Can't wait to have an intelligent conversation again... But I will miss the ocean and the sun.
After 7 years in San Diego, I'm moving back to Chicago. Can't wait to have an intelligent conversation and diverse friends again. But I will miss the sun and the ocean. I can always visit Santa Monica instead!!!
I agree - San Diego does SUCK! I live in New York City and I am dating someone (long distance) who is in the military there. I visited him 3 times last year (2011) and once so far this year (2012) and each and every time I try to love the place. It just fails so miserably - I can’t believe it. I've never felt this way about any place else - there is just something so intrinsically wrong with this place - the people, the cold nasty beaches, the cold dirty pacific etc...
Another misconception about San Diego is the weather – that its always so great. Totally NOT true... the weather sucks - it's usually always cold (hardly ever over 62 degrees) (esp. in mornings and evenings), windy and rainy (albeit on and off throughout most days). You constantly have to wear (or bring) sweatshirts and outerwear b/c the temps can drop fast.
It's also such a driving city (but I will say MOST American cities are like this - so it's not uniquely a San Diego derogatory trait). If you walk two blocks on a sidewalk in any of its’ neighborhoods you feel like a homeless transient just for doing so. I totally felt insecure and awkward walking around - which is terrible and so not like NYC. NYC is such a walking city and it's great to be able to do it without any odd feelings.
Another thing are all the surfer bro dudes - totally gross and annoying - it's incomprehendable how brain dead these idiots are - and totally not friendly (no one really is there).
I will play the devil's advocate to - some pros I found in SD ironically enough is their public transit stem (MTS), I've had some good experiences taking the buses and even better ones taking the trolleys. But watch out for the entire white trash bum homeless surf rat population (majority are white with long hair leather skin, stinking like alcohol past their 40s). There are also whole streets in downtown that are "tent cities" housing thousands of homeless people - never seen anything like it in my life.
I was overly cruel regarding the beaches - they are not ugly by any way shape or form... it's just that they are normally COLD, windy and the sand is not the nicest (compared to beaches in Florida or even NY)!
The only city worse then this (that I lived in for a short time) was Orlando. That’s a whole different story.
To be honest, your reasons for hating San Diego seem petty. A lack a of waterless urinals? If this is amongst your greatest tribulations living there, man, I would say your life sounds pretty damn good.
I grew up in Philadelphia. You talk about a complacent, superficial, shithole with political corruption, filth, and some of the meanest people you would ever have the misfortune of working/living near. Trust me, SD ain't got nothing on us.
Spend a year living out here and I guarantee, you would kiss the ground the moment you came back to San Diego.
I'm surprised I'm still getting comments on this post, 5 years after I wrote it...
If I wrote it again now, sure, I'd probably change a few things and use different examples. I might even change any number of the reasons I listed. For the most part, though, I could stand by the general ideas communicated here.
Reggie, the waterless urinals example seems a bit strange to me now, and I'm not sure why I used that particular example; the general idea behind that number, though, was that SD cares very little about environmental issues. Having lived in several cities around the globe, I know that relatively speaking, SD's environment is not high on many people's list of concerns.
I think what's important in that post is not so much the particular examples I used but the numbered reasons. Don't get hung up on the examples.
And 5 years later, having recently visited San Diego from my current Seattle, I can affirm that I still very much hate that city. To suggest as you do, Reggie, that there is a common experience of the city (e.g., "If you think SD is bad, you should visit X,Y,Z cities") is faulty - that's why the post is titled 10 reasons I hate San Diego. You might have reasons you like SD or hate Philly, but that does not really mean that I'll share them with you. Just sayin'...
I just happened on your post today; did not realize it was written so long ago. SD made quite an impression upon me. I am actually considering relocating there. To be quite honest, this was one of the few negative postings I found about the city. I may not agree with your reasons, but I do appreciate the different perspective. It gives newbies like me something to think about. I hope you found what you were looking for in Seattle. Good luck, brother.
Btw - Heaven or Las Vegas by the Cocteau Twins is one of my all time favorites. Ice Blink Luck. What a great song.
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